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<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Wayne asked:</span></font></div>
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<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> With the RBN do we really need this on the regular cluster network?</span></font></div>
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<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style=" font-size:12pt">I have been watching with interest the W3LPL spots. It became apparent
quickly what Frank was up to, even before reading this email from him, since
his posts were 24-7, including non-contest periods. If his claim on "100%
valid" is true, and if he turns down the volume as he intends, what's the
harm?</span></font></div>
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<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style=" font-size:12pt">The RBN has to date been largely un-validated in my experience. During a
contest weekend, the percentage of broken/busted spots was problematic,
enough so that the RBN team has developed some spot validation routines of
their own. I tested the most recent incarnation of the RBN this weekend in
the Russian DX Contest, and in the 12 hours that I was active and chasing
spots from the RBN, I found not a single broken call.</span></font></div>
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</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Most users have access to the conventional cluster and the RBN, but most
loggers (contest and everyday) can't aggregate the two sources in a single
application. (I say "most," but my experience is primarily with N1MM.
WinTest can do it, but it's a tedious setup.) As Brendan noted, K1TTT's
WinTelnetX does a fine job of this, but it is not very user friendly, and folks
are put off by it. I wrote a short "How To" for my local club describing the set
up for RBN + Cluster, hoping to help things along.</span></font></div>
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<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style=" font-size:12pt">I personally have no objection to W3LPL's high quality, relatively low volume
automatic injection of CW spots into the network.</span></font></div>
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</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style=" font-size:12pt">Just my opinion.</span></font></div>
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</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style=" font-size:12pt">73 - Dave N3RD</span></font></div>
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<div align="left"><font face="Arial"><span style=" font-size:12pt">On 20 Mar 2011 at 14:03, Wayne wrote:</span></font></div>
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</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> This from W3LPL to one of the locals...</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> **********************</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> Thanks for your email.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> W3LPL-2 is an experimental DX spot validator tool. It takes DX spots </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> from CW skimmers on the east coast and performs a rigorous validation of </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> every spot. If the tool determines that the spot is 100% valid, it is </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> then posted on the DX clusters. So far the experiment has been a big </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> success, as far as I'm aware no one has detected an spots that are </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> incorrect.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> There have been a few complaints about excessive spotting volume from </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> the W3LPL-2 experiment. The next version will reduce the re-posting </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> interval to 30 minutes for all but the most rare DX callsigns. It will </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> also significanlty reduce the volume of DX spots on 40, 20 and 15 meters </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> for all but the most needed DXCC entities</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> The vast majority of comments about the W3LPL-2 experiment have been </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> very positive, and the few concerns received have mostly focused on </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> reducing the volume of spots.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> 73</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> Frank</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> W3LPL</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> ****************</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> With the RBN do we really need this on the regular cluster network?</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> 73</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> Wayne WA1PMA</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> On 3/20/2011 5:39 AM, Brendan Minish wrote:</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > On Sun, 2011-03-20 at 10:41 +0000, gu6efb wrote:</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> >> Hi Group</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> >></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> >> What are sysops views on the rise of all theses skinners such as W3LPL</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> >> and UT7MA just to name a few.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> ></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > It's My view that the Skimmers are extremely useful BUT have no place</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > feeding spots to the conventional network, under ANY circumstances,</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > ever.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> ></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > There is a large network of skimmers. it's called the reverse beacon</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > network (RBN), My skimmer reports to it along with about 50 others.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > http://www.reversebeacon.net/</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> ></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > The system does have telnet ports, one of which runs dxpsider however</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > the level of traffic would I suspect, bring the conventional cluster</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > knees.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > During CW contests the system handles a truly vast amount of spots.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > Yesterday for example during the RDX contest the RBN spider node reports</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > that there were 452,529 spots in 1 24 Hour period, My conventional</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > cluster node handled 17,246 spots</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> ></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > Both W3LPL and UT7MA are active in the Russian DX contest as</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > multi-operator stations and seem to be spotting all QSO's from their</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > Search& Pounce (multiplier) station(s), This IS useful to other</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > contesters and a feature that many contest logging programs support. I</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > have used this on occasion myself but with my S&p run rates it's</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > unlikley to upset anyone ;-)</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> ></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > I am not seeing skimmer spots from either station on the regular network</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > at present, Just S&P spots.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > W3LPL is submitting spots to RBN currently at the rate of several per</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > minute, as are the other connected skimmers</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> ></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > By the way it's quite a testament to DXspider's abilities and Dirk's</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > coding that DXSpider can handle 90+ connected users at the very high</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > spot rates that RBN sees.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > However I suspect that there is room for further performance</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > optimisations for these traffic rates.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> ></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> >> I have had a number of complaints about these skinner stations from my</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> >> users.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> >></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> >> I have put the calls of skimmer stations in the badspotter list which</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> >> is helping.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > the problem with this is that both stations generate a lot of legitimate</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > spots too, I suspect it's really a user issue and it might be better</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > solved by asking stations sending skimmer spots to the regular network</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > not to do it</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> ></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> >> I know that CC Cluster has a NO Skimmer command is this something that</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> >> we now need in Dx Spider?</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > VE7CC IS collecting skimmer spots from some skimmers directly, He did</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > ask me for a connection to my skimmer but at present I don't allow</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > inbound connections to it, I simply push a connection out to the RBN.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > I also think the needs of the DX community are better served by a single</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > system or network handling skimmer spots rather than disparate systems</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > each carrying only a portion of the shared skimmers.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> ></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > It would be nice to see some features in Dxbase to allow easy peering</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > with nodes supporting skimmer spots so that there is no possibility of</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > these spots being leaked back to the regular cluster network.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > perhaps a variation of the set/node command that allows a peer to be</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > declared a skimmer nod and set up the filtering rules appropriately</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> ></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > there would also need to be user commands to give the users control of</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > which types of spots they see.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> ></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > I would love to run a node that carried Skimmer spots in addition to</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > regular spots but only propagate local spots back to the regular cluster</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > network.</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > Right now I mix feeds from RBN and my spider node on my local computer</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > with WintelnetX then feed this to my logging programs</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > http://www.k1ttt.net/software.html#wintelnetx</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> > but it's a bit of a hack</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> ></span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> </span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> _______________________________________________</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> Dxspider-support mailing list</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> Dxspider-support@dxcluster.org</span></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" color="#7f0000"><span style=" font-size:12pt">> http://mailman.tobit.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/dxspider-support</span></font></div>
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