[Dxspider-support] Hop counts

Mon Jan 9 10:04:23 GMT 2023

Hi Dirk and all,

about HOPS settings, I remember we have to modify the hop_table.pl file 
(and after do a load/hops in spider console): is this still valid ?
I don't recall if the hop_table.pl file, for the Mojo version, should be 
stored in /spider/data or in /spider/local_data...

73 Luigi IK5ZUK

Il 31/12/2022 21:24, Dirk Koopman via Dxspider-support ha scritto:
> Needless to say, having seen these (valid) complaints from Lee, I 
> thought I would setup a watchdbg to determine the scope of the 
> problem. The results have been rather surprising, given that even 
> GB7DJK is on the list. It is only once but that, by itself, is 
> surprising.
>
> The command(s):
>
> If you are running the 'mojo' branch, in a console do: unset/debug 
> nologchan
> WARNING: this will increase debug files between 5 and 10 times normal.
>
> In a shell:  watchdbg ' \<\- I [-\w\d]+ PC[16]1\^.*\^H[0123456]\^~'
>
> Analysis of  approx 14 hours of monitoring:
>
> In a shell:grepdbg ' \<\- I [-\w\d]+ PC[16]1\^.*\^H[0123456]\^~' | cut 
> -d'^' -f8 | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr
>     723 F5LEN-3
>     164 W1NR
>     115 WA9PIE-2
>      79 IK5PWJ-6
>      48 VE7CC-1
>      27 DB0ERF-5
>      19 ON4KST-2
>      15 SR4DXC
>      14 S50CLX
>       9 W1NR-9
>       9 N0VD-7
>       9 IZ7AUH-6
>       8 JH1RFM-9
>       8 HA6DX
>       8 9A0DXC
>       7 S50DXS
>       7 F6GCP-3
>       7 DB0LJ-6
>       6 IQ8PQ-6
>       6 IK6IHL-6
>       5 F6BVP-3
>       3 SM4ONW-14
>       3 OH2J
>       3 IK2DUW-6
>       3 GB7MBC
>       3 G4ELI-9
>       2 SV2HRT-1
>       2 SR2PUT
>       2 SM6YOU-7
>       2 PY4OG-4
>       2 ON0DXK-5
>       2 EA6VQ-2
>       2 EA4RCH-5
>       1 SM7IUN-3
>       1 SM7GVF-6
>       1 SK3W-6
>       1 OH1RCF
>       1 K7AR-4
>       1 K1TTT
>       1 IZ5FSA-6
>       1 IZ3MEZ-8
>       1 IW1PSC-6
>       1 IV3BVK-5
>       1 GB7NHR
>       1 GB7DXS
>       1 GB7DJK
>       1 F6KVP-3
>       1 F3KT-3
>       1 DB0HGW-6
>
> So, having found GB7DJK on the list, and then discovering why, I have 
> removed a local version of a file that has been there since before 
> PC92 etc was a thing. The result of this means that GB7DJK is, at 
> least partially, responsible for the problems that Lee has pointed out.
>
> If you are running any version of DXSpider,  AND YOUR CALL IS ON THE 
> LIST ABOVE with a double digit count, then add the following lines to 
> your /spider/scripts/startup:
>
> set/var $DXProt::def_hopcount 30          (or some larger number)
>
> Then repeat this command in a console to activate it in real time 
> without restarting the node.
>
> If you have a local copy of /spider/local/DXProtVars.pm AND there is 
> an entry for 11 and/or 61 in %hopcount, then do the following in a 
> console to disable the effect without restarting:
>
> set/var $DXProt::hopcount{11} 0
>
> and, (only) if this too is defined:
>
> set/var $DXProt::hopcount{61} 0
>
> Then REMOVE /spider/local/DXProtVars.pm.
>
> If you have used this file locally, please tell me (in a private) how 
> you are using it and I can make suggestions as to how to get rid of 
> it. In the next release of the mojo branch it will be renamed or (more 
> likely) just removed. In modern PC9x environments it no longer has any 
> useful function that can't be done with 'set/var' commands in startup.
>
> 73 and HNY for 2023 Dirk G1TLH
>
> On 30/12/2022 23:37, Dirk Koopman via Dxspider-support wrote:
>> Whoever is setting hop counts to such low values should desist 
>> IMMEDIATELY. Frankly the hop count is now redundant, given all the 
>> other de-duplication measures that nodes have. But, as a backstop, 
>> the default value should be set to at least 30. But better yet, just 
>> leave it at the default.
>>
>> As for the best thing to do: personally, I'd just re-hop them up to 
>> some minimum. Having said that, I am not seeing the disparity of hop 
>> count that you are at VA1AAA-1. The "worst" I have seen is some nodes 
>> setting the initial hop count to 30 (as recommended above)[if you 
>> must do it at all]. But I have a job running to trap any that pass 
>> GB7DJK's way.
>>
>> I have been concerned about PC11s "winning" the spot "record slot" 
>> over a PC61 arriving later. I keep meaning to do something about this 
>> but I keep getting distracted and forget. I feel an ephemeral "per 
>> spot queue" coming on.
>>
>> Dirk G1TLH
>>
>> On 30/12/2022 20:48, Lee Sawkins via Dxspider-support wrote:
>>> Examples of Hop problem at VA6AAA-1 node
>>>
>>> This is really annoying.  Spots were being missed by some nodes 
>>> because of this.
>>>
>>> Since AR Clusters can't process PC61 spots and CC Clusters only down 
>>> hop by 1, some of the following could only happen at Spider nodes.
>>> What I have done in self defense is to forward multiple spots. This 
>>> means that both spots you see below will be forwarded. One right 
>>> after another.  CC Clusters can accept and forward these. I keep 
>>> forwarding duplicate spots until the hops count gets above 10.  I 
>>> may have to increase this.
>>>
>>>        GB7DJK ->  4 PC61^14031.0^Z36T^30-Dec-2022^1846Z^Frustrated 
>>> OM ^Z30T-10^F5LEN-3^51.68.11.211^H5^~
>>>       VE7CC-1 ->  5 PC11^14031.0^Z36T^30-Dec-2022^1846Z^Frustrated 
>>> OM^Z30T-10^F5LEN-3^H97^~
>>>
>>>          AE5E ->  3 PC61^14023.1^AJ1AJ^30-Dec-2022^1859Z^YOTA CW TNX 
>>> ES HNY!^NB1N^W1NR^24.91.112.56^H2^~
>>>       VE7CC-1 ->  5 PC61^14023.1^AJ1AJ^30-Dec-2022^1859Z^YOTA CW TNX 
>>> ES HNY!^NB1N^W1NR^24.91.112.56^H26^~
>>>
>>>        GB7DJK ->  4 PC61^14021.4^E7CW^30-Dec-2022^1908Z^YOTA CW TNX 
>>> ES HNY!^NB1N^W1NR^24.91.112.56^H2
>>>          AE5E ->  3 PC11^14021.4^E7CW^30-Dec-2022^1908Z^YOTA CW TNX 
>>> ES HNY!^NB1N^W1NR^H97
>>>
>>>          AE5E ->  3 PC61^7272.0^W2T^30-Dec-2022^1949Z^ 
>>> ^KK4ADQ^W1NR^76.106.89.109^H2^~
>>>       VE7CC-1 ->  5 PC11^7272.0^W2T^30-Dec-2022^1949Z^ 
>>> ^KK4ADQ^W1NR^H97^~
>>>
>>>       VE7CC-1 ->  5 PC61^7020.6^CT9ABN^30-Dec-2022^2028Z^ 
>>> ^NB1N^W1NR^24.91.112.56^H2^~
>>>          AE5E ->  3 PC11^7020.6^CT9ABN^30-Dec-2022^2028Z^ 
>>> ^NB1N^W1NR^H97^~
>>>
>>> Lee VE7CC
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "The DXSpider Support list" <dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk>
>>> To: "The DXSpider Support list" <dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk>
>>> Cc: "Dirk Koopman" <djk at tobit.co.uk>
>>> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2022 8:23:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Dxspider-support] Hop counts
>>>
>>> I should add that it is technically possible for DXSpider nodes to 
>>> rehop
>>> PCxx sentences, particularly in the downward direction.
>>>
>>> On 30/12/2022 20:20, Dirk Koopman via Dxspider-support wrote:
>>>> Some nodes deliberately limit hop counts to some low number like 10 or
>>>> 15. A pity then, that spots that travel through nodes (IIRC AR-C)
>>>> where they are "rehopped" back to 98 (or so). I did some research on
>>>> this several years ago and that was the conclusion I came to at the
>>>> time. But things may have changed since then.
>>>>
>>>> 73 Dirk G1TLH
>>>>
>>>> On 30/12/2022 18:41, Lee Sawkins via Dxspider-support wrote:
>>>>> Can someone explain to me why my cluster receives some dx spots with
>>>>> a hop count of say H3 or lower from one of my node links and almost
>>>>> immediately receives another identical spot almost immediately from
>>>>> another node partner with a hop count of H97.  This first one is sent
>>>>> out to my node connections with a hop count of H2 or less, which
>>>>> means it should soon be hopped out and not further forwarded.  Why is
>>>>> some intermediate node doing this.  Is it an attempt to sabotage the
>>>>> distribution of some spots?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hop numbers from a couple of specific nodes are particularly low.
>>>>> These include W1NR, F5LEN-3 and EA6VQ-2.
>>>>>
>>>>> 73 Lee VE7CC
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Dxspider-support mailing list
>>>>> Dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk
>>>>> https://mailman.tobit.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/dxspider-support
>>>>
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