[Dxspider-support] Self-spotting and de-duplication

Mon Jan 13 18:37:07 GMT 2025

Don't worry, my toes may be large but they can handle a good stepping.

When I put ham radio aside around 1990 for family and career reasons, DX
clusters did
not really exist so when I returned in 2016 I had already missed the early
days of clusters
where all spots were made by humans and the terminal bell went off every
time a spot arrived.

I can understand there may be hams wanting to stay with that.
I enjoy CW for pretty much the same nostalgic reasons.

I'm of course perfectly fine with there being cluster nodes set up and
optimized
for this type of old school usage. As long the cluster software does not
enforce it
or prevents more modern ways.

However, the way I see it, a casual user actually has ever more reason to
embrace a
more modern cluster usage. The casual user does not spend endless hours by
the radio
so he should have good reasons to maximize his productivity and/or fun.

Having a software (like SpotCollector or HRDLog) monitor the cluster and
present
maps or lists or graphs with needed DXCC band slots, friends, event
stations, etc. is a great
way to do exactly this.

And when you have a piece of software to collect your spots, information
overload is no longer
an issue and you can tap into as many information sources as you like; RBN,
PSKReporter, IRC, etc.
To get even more productive and have more fun.

But there are of course different definitions of fun. People do a lot of
things that are difficult or
uncomfortable for fun.

So perhaps I should have used a bit more respectful language when
describing the practices of
the early days of clusters.

Björn SM7IUN

On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 6:00 PM Rene Olsen via Dxspider-support <
dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi.
>
> To be honest I am not quite sure how to respond to this, without stepping
> on someones toes.
> But here it goes.
>
> You are aware that the DX-Cluster system is also used by casual users, who
> couldn't care
> less about bandmaps, contests and what else?
>
> DX-Clusters have been used just fine for 30+ years, without the use of RBN.
>
> > A cluster node without skimmer spots is of very little value.
>
> That is some statement. So what you are saying, is that all DX-Clusters
> without RBN feed
> might as well close down? I mean since they are of very little value.
>
> RBN is probably a good thing for some. But the user can turn it OFF if the
> user don't want it.
>
> I don't know how much RBN spots are used on various DX-Clusters. I can
> only speak for
> OZ5BBS-7. I have an average of maybe 45-55 users on a daily basis. Not
> many of them have
> enabled the RBN feed.
>
> I doubt that the casual user of a DX-Cluster wants to get a DX spot of
> some W station spotting
> itself 930 times during the CQWW contest.
>
> Its like everything revolves about contesting. Thats not the case.
>
> Many users who use DX-Clusters, couldn't care less about contests.
>
> I am not saying that DX-Clusters shouldn't evolve, and we should be stuck
> at how it was 30
> years ago. But, it should be done with the casual DX-Cluster user in mind
> as well.
>
> I hope I didn't step on too many toes here :-)
>
> Vy 73 de Rene / OZ1LQH
>
>
> On 12 Jan 2025 at 22:51, Björn Ekelund via Dxspider- wrote:
>
> > A cluster node without skimmer spots is of very little value.
> > The reverse beacon network produces about 12 million spots on a
> > big contest weekend. This is consolidated and de-duped into perhaps half
> a
> > million.
> > With this in mind, what makes a few thousand self spots a problem?
> >
> > The days of watching the telnet feed scroll by are long gone.
> > Today computers turn the spot flow into bandmap items and lists of wanted
> > stations.
> > The cluster connection is just a data feed. Not a user interface.
> >
> > Björn SM7IUN
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 9:41PM Rene Olsen via Dxspider-support <
> > dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > Does this mean that we can get selfspots every 3 minutes from 5000+
> users
> > > or whatever?
> > >
> > > If thats the case it is just stupid.
> > >
> > > If it is really the case, it makes one wonder if it is even worth
> running
> > > a spider node anymore. It
> > > will totally ruin the entire idea of DX clusters. Which is not to allow
> > > some OZ station or
> > > whatever, to send self spot every 3 minutes 24/7.
> > >
> > > Just my opinion.
> > >
> > > Vy 73 de Rene / OZ1LQH
> > >
> > > On 12 Jan 2025 at 18:54, Björn Ekelund via Dxspider- wrote:
> > >
> > > > Some of the default settings of DXSpider seem optimized for users
> staring
> > > > at the telnet feed.
> > > >
> > > > In my scripts/startup I have added
> > > >
> > > > set/var $RBN::respottime = 180
> > > > set/var $Spot::minselfspotqrg  0
> > > >
> > > > A cluster node should never suppress a self spot. The minimum self
> > > spotting
> > > > periodicity is set
> > > > by the contest's rules and the cluster should never interfere with
> this.
> > > > Typical minimum periods for
> > > > self spotting in contests are between 3 and 10 minutes.
> > > >
> > > > If DXSpider does suppress self spots under certain conditions I would
> > > like
> > > > to know how to disable this.
> > > >
> > > > Björn SM7IUN
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 4:35PM Keith, G6NHU via Dxspider-support <
> > > > dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Now that self spotting is allowed for a trial period in all RSGB HF
> > > > > contests, I´ve been asked about self-spotting and submitting
> duplicate
> > > > > spots by a couple of my users.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some time ago I set minselfspotqrg to 0 to allow self spotting but
> > > what is
> > > > > the situation regarding duplicates because I understand some
> logging
> > > > > software can now self spot every few minutes.  I don´t necessarily
> > > agree
> > > > > with this but it´s going to happen more and more.
> > > > >
> > > > > What´s the period during which the cluster will reject a self spot
> as a
> > > > > dupe please and is there a variable that can be tweaked to adjust
> it?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > 73 Keith.
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Dxspider-support mailing list
> > > > > Dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk
> > > > > https://mailman.tobit.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/dxspider-support
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
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