[Dxspider-support] Self-spotting and de-duplication

Tue Jan 14 09:01:04 GMT 2025

Folks, if you look at the linked thread you can see that spots are
considered dupes despite:

1) QRG is very different
2) comments are different
3) delta time between them is more than 3 hours.

-->

Il giorno mar 14 gen 2025 alle ore 09:28 Björn Ekelund via Dxspider-support
<dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk> ha scritto:

> What does these numbers mean? Is your re-spotting timer really one hour?
>
> Do you know what variable controls the minimum frequency change for a spot
> to
> be considered not a dupe? Today it seems to be around 5kHz which is far,
> far too much.
>
> Björn SM7IUN
>
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 8:28 AM Kin via Dxspider-support <
> dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> It is advisable not to touch Stop.pm.
>>
>> It would be enough to do:
>>
>>
>>
>> set/var $Spot::dupage = XXXX
>>
>> set/var $Spot::timegranularity = ZZZZ
>>
>>
>>
>> The default values I have are:
>>
>>
>>
>> $Spot::dupage = 3600
>>
>> $Spot::timegranularity = 600
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Kin EA3CV
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *De:* Dxspider-support <dxspider-support-bounces at tobit.co.uk> *En nombre
>> de *Simon Ravnic via Dxspider-support
>> *Enviado el:* lunes, 13 de enero de 2025 23:58
>> *Para:* The DXSpider Support list <dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk>
>> *CC:* Simon Ravnič <s53zo at t-2.net>
>> *Asunto:* Re: [Dxspider-support] Self-spotting and de-duplication
>>
>>
>>
>> There is an easy way to change it locally. In perl/Spot.pm change
>>
>>
>>
>> dupage = 120;
>>
>> timegranularity = 120;
>>
>>
>>
>> to allow a dupe spot every 120 seconds.
>>
>>
>>
>> The issue that remains is that such post is visible only on the original
>> node. It appears that it gets deduped on your partner nodes and is
>> therefore not propagated to the network.
>>
>>
>>
>> With the new contesting rules where more and more of them allow
>> self-spotting I believe the network should accommodate to this fact.
>>
>>
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Simon, S53ZO
>>
>> S50DXS sysop
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13 Jan 2025, at 22:05, IZ2LSC via Dxspider-support <
>> dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Back to the main topic,
>>
>> Based on tests I did in the past, the logic behind the deduplication is
>> not clear, or at least I cannot understand it.
>>
>> Sometime ago I already wrote about this topic in the list, but no
>> one answered.
>>
>> I have seen many time spots classified as dupe even if a very long time
>> has passed from last spot.
>>
>> I also tried to change some parameters on the cluster configuration, but
>> with no luck.
>>
>> I end up by clearing on my cluster the dupe file every hour, to make the
>> deduplication less aggressive.
>>
>>
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Andrea, IZ2LSC
>>
>> -->
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Il giorno lun 13 gen 2025 alle ore 19:37 Björn Ekelund via
>> Dxspider-support <dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk> ha scritto:
>>
>> Don't worry, my toes may be large but they can handle a good stepping.
>>
>>
>>
>> When I put ham radio aside around 1990 for family and career reasons, DX
>> clusters did
>>
>> not really exist so when I returned in 2016 I had already missed the
>> early days of clusters
>>
>> where all spots were made by humans and the terminal bell went off every
>> time a spot arrived.
>>
>>
>>
>> I can understand there may be hams wanting to stay with that.
>>
>> I enjoy CW for pretty much the same nostalgic reasons.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm of course perfectly fine with there being cluster nodes set up and
>> optimized
>>
>> for this type of old school usage. As long the cluster software does not
>> enforce it
>>
>> or prevents more modern ways.
>>
>>
>>
>> However, the way I see it, a casual user actually has ever more reason to
>> embrace a
>>
>> more modern cluster usage. The casual user does not spend endless hours
>> by the radio
>>
>> so he should have good reasons to maximize his productivity and/or fun.
>>
>>
>>
>> Having a software (like SpotCollector or HRDLog) monitor the cluster and
>> present
>>
>> maps or lists or graphs with needed DXCC band slots, friends, event
>> stations, etc. is a great
>>
>> way to do exactly this.
>>
>>
>>
>> And when you have a piece of software to collect your spots, information
>> overload is no longer
>>
>> an issue and you can tap into as many information sources as you like;
>> RBN, PSKReporter, IRC, etc.
>>
>> To get even more productive and have more fun.
>>
>>
>>
>> But there are of course different definitions of fun. People do a lot of
>> things that are difficult or
>>
>> uncomfortable for fun.
>>
>>
>>
>> So perhaps I should have used a bit more respectful language when
>> describing the practices of
>>
>> the early days of clusters.
>>
>>
>>
>> Björn SM7IUN
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 6:00 PM Rene Olsen via Dxspider-support <
>> dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Hi.
>>
>> To be honest I am not quite sure how to respond to this, without stepping
>> on someones toes.
>> But here it goes.
>>
>> You are aware that the DX-Cluster system is also used by casual users,
>> who couldn't care
>> less about bandmaps, contests and what else?
>>
>> DX-Clusters have been used just fine for 30+ years, without the use of
>> RBN.
>>
>> > A cluster node without skimmer spots is of very little value.
>>
>> That is some statement. So what you are saying, is that all DX-Clusters
>> without RBN feed
>> might as well close down? I mean since they are of very little value.
>>
>> RBN is probably a good thing for some. But the user can turn it OFF if
>> the user don't want it.
>>
>> I don't know how much RBN spots are used on various DX-Clusters. I can
>> only speak for
>> OZ5BBS-7. I have an average of maybe 45-55 users on a daily basis. Not
>> many of them have
>> enabled the RBN feed.
>>
>> I doubt that the casual user of a DX-Cluster wants to get a DX spot of
>> some W station spotting
>> itself 930 times during the CQWW contest.
>>
>> Its like everything revolves about contesting. Thats not the case.
>>
>> Many users who use DX-Clusters, couldn't care less about contests.
>>
>> I am not saying that DX-Clusters shouldn't evolve, and we should be stuck
>> at how it was 30
>> years ago. But, it should be done with the casual DX-Cluster user in mind
>> as well.
>>
>> I hope I didn't step on too many toes here :-)
>>
>> Vy 73 de Rene / OZ1LQH
>>
>>
>> On 12 Jan 2025 at 22:51, Björn Ekelund via Dxspider- wrote:
>>
>> > A cluster node without skimmer spots is of very little value.
>> > The reverse beacon network produces about 12 million spots on a
>> > big contest weekend. This is consolidated and de-duped into perhaps
>> half a
>> > million.
>> > With this in mind, what makes a few thousand self spots a problem?
>> >
>> > The days of watching the telnet feed scroll by are long gone.
>> > Today computers turn the spot flow into bandmap items and lists of
>> wanted
>> > stations.
>> > The cluster connection is just a data feed. Not a user interface.
>> >
>> > Björn SM7IUN
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 9:41PM Rene Olsen via Dxspider-support <
>> > dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi.
>> > >
>> > > Does this mean that we can get selfspots every 3 minutes from 5000+
>> users
>> > > or whatever?
>> > >
>> > > If thats the case it is just stupid.
>> > >
>> > > If it is really the case, it makes one wonder if it is even worth
>> running
>> > > a spider node anymore. It
>> > > will totally ruin the entire idea of DX clusters. Which is not to
>> allow
>> > > some OZ station or
>> > > whatever, to send self spot every 3 minutes 24/7.
>> > >
>> > > Just my opinion.
>> > >
>> > > Vy 73 de Rene / OZ1LQH
>> > >
>> > > On 12 Jan 2025 at 18:54, Björn Ekelund via Dxspider- wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Some of the default settings of DXSpider seem optimized for users
>> staring
>> > > > at the telnet feed.
>> > > >
>> > > > In my scripts/startup I have added
>> > > >
>> > > > set/var $RBN::respottime = 180
>> > > > set/var $Spot::minselfspotqrg  0
>> > > >
>> > > > A cluster node should never suppress a self spot. The minimum self
>> > > spotting
>> > > > periodicity is set
>> > > > by the contest's rules and the cluster should never interfere with
>> this.
>> > > > Typical minimum periods for
>> > > > self spotting in contests are between 3 and 10 minutes.
>> > > >
>> > > > If DXSpider does suppress self spots under certain conditions I
>> would
>> > > like
>> > > > to know how to disable this.
>> > > >
>> > > > Björn SM7IUN
>> > > >
>> > > > On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 4:35PM Keith, G6NHU via Dxspider-support <
>> > > > dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Now that self spotting is allowed for a trial period in all RSGB
>> HF
>> > > > > contests, I´ve been asked about self-spotting and submitting
>> duplicate
>> > > > > spots by a couple of my users.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Some time ago I set minselfspotqrg to 0 to allow self spotting but
>> > > what is
>> > > > > the situation regarding duplicates because I understand some
>> logging
>> > > > > software can now self spot every few minutes.  I don´t necessarily
>> > > agree
>> > > > > with this but it´s going to happen more and more.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > What´s the period during which the cluster will reject a self
>> spot as a
>> > > > > dupe please and is there a variable that can be tweaked to adjust
>> it?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thanks,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > 73 Keith.
>> > > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > > Dxspider-support mailing list
>> > > > > Dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk
>> > > > > https://mailman.tobit.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/dxspider-support
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Dxspider-support mailing list
>> > > Dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk
>> > > https://mailman.tobit.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/dxspider-support
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
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