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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Keith<br>
<br>
Thank you for organising this.<br>
<br>
73 Dirk G1TLH<br>
<br>
On 25/01/2025 22:19, Keith, G6NHU via Dxspider-support wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:193dda10-f3f4-4da1-a441-1467df57978d@Spark">
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<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:Arial;font-size: medium">HamClock V4.13
has been modified as per my comments below, I’m running a
beta build now and can confirm it’s working as I described.</span><span
style="font-size: medium"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: medium"><br>
</span><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size: medium">It
will send qra or location under two situations:</span><span
style="font-size: medium"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: medium"><br>
</span><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size: medium">1) If
the node asks for them</span><span style="font-size: medium"><br>
</span><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size: medium">2) If
the user changes them within the setup</span><span
style="font-size: medium"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: medium"><br>
</span><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size: medium">It
has slots for up to 12 DXCluster commands so if the user has
all these filled, the most commands it will ever send on
login is 14 at approximately half second intervals and then
it won’t send any more commands at all while it’s connected.</span><span
style="font-size: medium"><br>
</span><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size: medium"> </span><span
style="font-size: medium"><br>
</span><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size: medium">And
that’s it. With these little new tweaks and with the
changes that were made to HamClock to be less ‘chatty’ over
a year ago, I hope nobody can object to it any more.</span><span
style="font-size: medium"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: medium"><br>
</span><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size: medium">73
Keith.</span></div>
</div>
<div name="messageReplySection">On 24 Jan 2025 at 20:02 +0000,
Keith, G6NHU via Dxspider-support
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk"><dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk></a>, wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
style="border-left-color: grey; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; margin: 5px 5px;padding-left: 10px;">
<div name="messageBodySection">
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-size: 16px">Because client
software is mentioned here, I thought I’d jump in. As
is known, I work closely with the HamClock developer and
following this email, we’ve discussed what it sends to
the node.</span><span style="font-size: 16px"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 16px"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 16px">At the moment, he
sends </span><em style="font-size: 16px">set/qra</em><span
style="font-size: 16px"> and </span><em
style="font-size: 16px">set/location</em><span
style="font-size: 16px"> each time HamClock connects to
the cluster. He’s going to change that so they’re only
sent if they’re requested. So if a new user sets up a
HamClock, the first time it connects to a DXSpider,
it’ll send </span><em style="font-size: 16px">set/qra</em><span
style="font-size: 16px"> and </span><em
style="font-size: 16px">set/location</em><span
style="font-size: 16px"> and on all subsequent
connections, it won’t send them. </span><span
style="font-size: 16px"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 16px"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: medium">The ten minute
inactivity ping timer he sends will be removed as well
as that’s not needed.</span><span
style="font-size: medium"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: medium"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: medium">This means that the
only commands a HamClock will regularly send to the node
are the filter commands that the user sets up. They’ll
be sent each time a connection is made and with a forced
delay between them to avoid hitting any flood
timer. The reason they’re sent every time is because a
user may change them and they always need to be up to
date.</span><span style="font-size: medium"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: medium"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 16px">I can’t comment on
any other client software but the HamClock developer is
very happy to work with us and put as little load on the
system as possible. I don’t really see how he can
reduce it any further.</span><span
style="font-size: 16px"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 16px"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 16px">Rudy - You’re quite
right, individual nodes may need different settings and
that’s why there are two variables you can set which
will overwrite the X = 16 and Y = 9 values that are the
new proposed defaults. If you need something different
then you can adjust your node accordingly by setting </span><em
style="font-size: 16px">$<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="DXCommandmode::maxcmdcount">DXCommandmode::maxcmdcount</a></em><span
style="font-size: 16px"> and </span><em
style="font-size: 16px">$<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="DXCommandmode::cmdinterval">DXCommandmode::cmdinterval</a></em><span
style="font-size: 16px"> (X and Y respectively) in </span><em
style="font-size: 16px">/spider/scripts/startup</em><span
style="font-size: 16px">.</span><span
style="font-size: 16px"> This is already documented in </span><em
style="font-size: 16px">/spider/Changes</em><span
style="font-size: 16px">, see the entries for 24Mar23
and 25Mar23.</span><span style="font-size: 16px"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 16px"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 16px">73 Keith.</span><span
style="font-size: 16px"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 16px"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
<div name="messageReplySection">On 24 Jan 2025 at 13:38 +0000,
Dirk Koopman via Dxspider-support
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk"><dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk></a>, wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
style="border-left-color: grey; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; margin: 5px 5px;padding-left: 10px;">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">We seem to be starting to
lose the "battle" between nodes <-> users on
client programs issuing data (for whatever reason).<br>
<br>
The piece of code shown below was introduced in March
2023, together with the following comment underneath:<br>
<font face="monospace"><br>
These default values are set generously
deliberately to allow certain user<br>
programs to get with the program and reduce the
number of cmds that they<br>
issue on connection down to something reasonable.
For instance, I cannot<br>
see why things like name, qth, lat/long/QRA
(amongst several other sticky<br>
user attributes that only need to be entered once)
are sent on every login.<br>
<br>
</font> It is clear to me that the situation has got
worse and the time to tighten the defaults has arrived.
In addition, I will add a general re-login delay so that
programs cannot instantly reconnect and just carry on.
Maybe with a second/other safeguard of recording the IP
address rather than the callsign with an backoff timer
after Z number of "fast" attempts to re-login. Or
something like that (maybe a timed local IP address
ban?).<br>
<br>
I will happily accept suggestions for "better" values
for X = 16 and Y = 9 below. As well as other ways of
discouraging this sort of behaviour.<br>
<br>
I fail to understand the point of spotting an entire FTx
channel's decoded callsigns. You haven't worked them,
your program just heard them, but you're probably
drinking tea and working someone else OR you've simply
left the computer on whilst going out for the day. This,
incidentally, is why I won't, ever, gate out raw skimmer
spots to users. Speaking of which: the FTx skimmer
network will likely do a better job than your random
user "skimmer" so why not just connect to that instead!<br>
<br>
This person appears to have taken it upon himself
(gender deliberately chosen) to become an FTx skimmer
that gates his data out into the general spot pool. But
he could not do this unless the CLIENT SOFTWARE he is
using provides that facility. So the obvious solution to
this is to try to identify the author(s) of the client
software and persuade them to not allow this sort of
thing to occur. Experience shows that authors are
reluctant to change the behaviour of their creations (I
can understand that) and simply ignore requests for
changes from "outside" their user communities. It
probably takes at least 15 years of full time
professional programming before one truly believes that
all software has bugs, or undesirable behaviours that
have been discovered by users that require changes.
Unfortunately many authors are hobby programmers and
resistant to external pressure for change. Probably,
because their software is written in a way that makes it
too difficult to change. I remember that :-)<br>
<br>
As I have been writing this, I am starting to get a bit
annoyed by the thoughtlessness of some authors and
users. So I will implement an linearly increasing IP
address ban time, together with message on login (with a
fixed delay of say 10 secs before forced disconnect)
saying something like "You are sending too many commands
too quickly, you are banned from reconnecting until
<date/time>". Obviously if they reconnect and do
it again (within some interval) they will be have more
time added - and - "good behaviour" over a period of
time will reduce their penalty ban time.<br>
<br>
Your thoughts and suggestions for default values for
these times / intervals will be gratefully received.<br>
<br>
73 Dirk G1TLH<br>
<br>
On 21/01/2025 21:31, IZ2LSC via Dxspider-support wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJowXJDnX+pSPpb72vyfu5kATE+ttednjO_RO=1C8p-ktjDitg@mail.gmail.com">
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content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I know there is the following knob, but if the
originating node is not up to date (or is not a
spider), then the flood is sent into the network.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Added cmd entry rate limiting. If a user sends
X commmands in Y secs then<br>
they are disconnected without notice. The
defaults are X<br>
($<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="DXCommandmode::maxcmdcount"
moz-do-not-send="true">DXCommandmode::maxcmdcount</a>)
= 16 and Y ($<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="DXCommandmode::cmdinterval"
moz-do-not-send="true">DXCommandmode::cmdinterval</a>)
= 9.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Andrea, IZ2LSC</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">--></div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jan 21, 2025
at 10:07 PM <<a href="mailto:ea3cv@cronux.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ea3cv@cronux.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div dir="auto">The only thing I can think of is
to treat spotter+time as a duplicate variant
within a 1s window.
<div dir="auto">I don't know if Dirk has
something implemented.</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I'll look tomorrow, I'm curious.<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Kin</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div
id="m_-492333046762524246ms-outlook-mobile-signature" dir="auto">
<div><br>
</div>
Enviado desde <a href="https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Outlook
para Android</a></div>
<div dir="auto"
id="m_-492333046762524246mail-editor-reference-message-container"><br>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_-492333046762524246divRplyFwdMsg"
style="font-size:11pt"><strong>De:</strong>
Dxspider-support <<a
href="mailto:dxspider-support-bounces@tobit.co.uk" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dxspider-support-bounces@tobit.co.uk</a>>
en nombre de IZ2LSC via Dxspider-support <<a
href="mailto:dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk</a>><br>
<strong>Enviado:</strong> martes, enero 21,
2025 9:30:48 p. m.<br>
<strong>Para:</strong> The DXSpider Support
list <<a
href="mailto:dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk</a>><br>
<strong>CC:</strong> IZ2LSC <<a
href="mailto:iz2lsc.andrea@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">iz2lsc.andrea@gmail.com</a>><br>
<strong>Asunto:</strong> [Dxspider-support]
Fwd: Max Spot per Minute (how to avoid
flooding)<br>
</div>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi sysops!<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I was reviewing my cluster stats when
I noticed this spike in spot per minute
(see attached image).<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><immagine.png><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Looking at the logs I can see a flood
of 55 spots coming in the same second
from the same user, an extract below:</div>
<div><span style="font-family:monospace"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:monospace">7074.4^DH2YBG^1737474360^FT8^KC9LFD^32^226^DB0ERF-5^28^14^8^4^^^204.93.149.214<br>
7074.4^GM6URC^1737474360^FT8^KC9LFD^65^226^DB0ERF-5^27^14^8^4^^^204.93.149.214<br>
7074.4^N5TLH^1737474360^FT8^KC9LFD^226^226^DB0ERF-5^7^4^8^4^^^204.93.149.214<br>
7074.4^LA8ENA^1737474360^FT8^KC9LFD^123^226^DB0ERF-5^18^14^8^4^^^204.93.149.214<br>
7074.4^P40AA^1737474360^FT8^KC9LFD^326^226^DB0ERF-5^11^9^8^4^^^204.93.149.214<br>
7074.4^F5SJF^1737474360^FT8^KC9LFD^42^226^DB0ERF-5^27^14^8^4^^^204.93.149.214<br>
7074.4^VK2WN^1737474360^FT8^KC9LFD^198^226^DB0ERF-5^59^30^8^4^^^204.93.149.214<br>
7074.4^N1UL^1737474360^FT8^KC9LFD^226^226^DB0ERF-5^8^5^8^4^^^204.93.149.214<br>
7074.4^KA9SOG^1737474360^FT8^KC9LFD^226^226^DB0ERF-5^8^4^8^4^^^204.93.149.214<br>
7074.4^VK3YW^1737474360^FT8^KC9LFD^198^226^DB0ERF-5^59^30^8^4^^^204.93.149.214<br>
7074.4^N9IBM^1737474360^FT8^KC9LFD^226^226^DB0ERF-5^8^4^8^4^^^204.93.149.214<br>
7074.4^W5ORC^1737474360^FT8^KC9LFD^226^226^DB0ERF-5^8^5^8^4^^^204.93.149.214<br>
7074.4^KP2BH^1737474360^FT8^KC9LFD^119^226^DB0ERF-5^11^8^8^4^^^204.93.149.214<br>
3573.4^K8CW^1737474360^FT8^KC9LFD^226^226^DB0ERF-5^8^4^8^4^^^204.93.149.214<br>
3573.4^P40AA^1737474360^FT8^KC9LFD^326^226^DB0ERF-5^11^9^8^4^^^204.93.149.214<br>
3573.4^K1TAP^1737474360^FT8^KC9LFD^226^226^DB0ERF-5^8^5^8^4^^^204.93.149.214</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Is there a way to activate a sort of
flooding protection?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks and 73</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Andrea, IZ2LSC<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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