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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=ES link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style='tab-interval:35.4pt;word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Dirk <span class=SpellE>is</span> <span class=SpellE>doing</span> <span class=SpellE>his</span> <span class=SpellE>best</span> <span class=SpellE>to</span> <span class=SpellE>curb</span> <span class=SpellE>these</span> abuses <span class=SpellE>without</span> <span class=SpellE>altering</span> <span class=SpellE>the</span> <span class=SpellE>protocol</span>. <span class=SpellE>This</span> <span class=SpellE>is</span> <span class=SpellE>to</span> be <span class=SpellE>welcomed</span>, <span class=SpellE>but</span> <span class=SpellE>it</span> <span class=SpellE>is</span> <span class=SpellE>expensive</span> <span class=SpellE>work</span> <span class=SpellE>that</span> <span class=SpellE>unfortunately</span> <span class=SpellE>will</span> <span class=SpellE>not</span> <span class=SpellE>have</span> <span class=SpellE>the</span> <span class=SpellE>desired</span> <span class=SpellE>impact</span> <span class=SpellE>until</span> <span class=SpellE>we</span> <span class=SpellE>get</span> a natural <span class=SpellE>evolution</span> as <span class=SpellE>you</span> <span class=SpellE>have</span> <span class=SpellE>said</span> Keith.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Andrea <span class=SpellE>is</span> <span class=SpellE>showing</span> <span class=SpellE>us</span> a <span class=SpellE>clear</span> <span class=SpellE>evidence</span> <span class=SpellE>of</span> <span class=SpellE>what</span> <span class=SpellE>could</span> be a real <span class=SpellE>attack</span> <span class=SpellE>on</span> <span class=SpellE>the</span> <span class=SpellE>network</span>, <span class=SpellE>not</span> <span class=SpellE>what</span> <span class=SpellE>we</span> <span class=SpellE>had</span> <span class=SpellE>this</span> <span class=SpellE>weekend</span>, <span class=SpellE>which</span> <span class=SpellE>was</span> <span class=SpellE>nothing</span>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I <span class=SpellE>propose</span> <span class=SpellE>to</span> Dirk, <span class=SpellE>if</span> <span class=SpellE>possible</span>, <span class=SpellE>that</span> <span class=SpellE>along</span> <span class=SpellE>with</span> <span class=SpellE>the</span> <span class=SpellE>information</span> <span class=SpellE>that</span> <span class=SpellE>is</span> <span class=SpellE>currently</span> <span class=SpellE>sent</span> <span class=SpellE>for</span> <span class=SpellE>each</span> <span class=SpellE>node</span>, <span class=SpellE>the</span> variables $<span class=SpellE><span class=GramE>main</span></span><span class=GramE>::</span><span class=SpellE>reqreg</span> and $<span class=SpellE>main</span>::<span class=SpellE>passwdrq</span> <span class=SpellE>should</span> <span class=SpellE>also</span> be <span class=SpellE>sent</span>, so <span class=SpellE>that</span> <span class=SpellE>the</span> <span class=SpellE>rest</span> <span class=SpellE>of</span> <span class=SpellE>the</span> <span class=SpellE>sysops</span> <span class=SpellE>know</span> <span class=SpellE>if</span> <span class=SpellE>it</span> <span class=SpellE>is</span> a <span class=SpellE>node</span> <span class=SpellE>that</span> <span class=SpellE>is</span> <span class=SpellE>to</span> be <span class=SpellE>considered</span> <span class=SpellE>trusted</span> <span class=SpellE>or</span> <span class=SpellE>not</span>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=SpellE><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>This</span></span><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> <span class=SpellE>would</span> <span class=SpellE>allow</span> <span class=SpellE>us</span>, <span class=SpellE>together</span> <span class=SpellE>with</span> <span class=SpellE>the</span> <span class=SpellE>authentication</span> <span class=SpellE>of</span> <span class=SpellE>the</span> links, <span class=SpellE>to</span> decide <span class=SpellE>what</span> <span class=SpellE>relationship</span> <span class=SpellE>we</span> <span class=SpellE>want</span> <span class=SpellE>to</span> <span class=SpellE>have</span> <span class=SpellE>with</span> <span class=SpellE>the</span> <span class=SpellE>other</span> <span class=SpellE>nodes</span>. <span class=SpellE>What</span> do <span class=SpellE>you</span> <span class=SpellE>think</span>?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Kin EA3CV<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>De:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'> Dxspider-support <dxspider-support-bounces@tobit.co.uk> <b>En nombre de </b>Keith, G6NHU via Dxspider-support<br><b>Enviado el:</b> martes, 18 de febrero de 2025 10:40<br><b>Para:</b> The DXSpider Support list <dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk><br><b>CC:</b> Keith, G6NHU <g6nhu@me.com><br><b>Asunto:</b> Re: [Dxspider-support] Queues and classes against flood attack<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div name=messageBodySection><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>I know it may sound harsh but actually, I think we should discard spots that fail the sender verify checks.<br><br>The network needs to move forward and sender verification is a very good start. If people are using software which is no longer supported and therefore a security hole then they have two options: Stay as they are and lose their users because their spots are being rejected or change the software they’re using to something that does support sender verification.<br><br>If software is still actively being maintained then the developers should be adding features to enhance the security of the network.<br><br>Backward compatibility can’t last forever. <br><br>73 Keith G6NHU <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div name=messageReplySection><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>On 18 Feb 2025 at 08:23 +0000, IZ2LSC via Dxspider-support <dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk>, wrote:<br style='mso-special-character:line-break'><![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br style='mso-special-character:line-break'><![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;mso-border-left-alt:solid windowtext .75pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 8.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:3.75pt;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>I think that that we cannot simply discard spots that are failing the senderverify check because of the very different flavors of cluster on the net.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>And it's not just a matter of good or fake spots. The other important topic we have to deal with is the flooding itself. Consider that a single IP PC61packet (with a standard MTU of 1500 Bytes) can contain at least 20 spots (it depends which info are in the spot itself) or more.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>So<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>a rate of 10KByte/s (80Kbit/s) generates 133 spots per second (10/1,5*20)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>a rate of 125KByte/s (1Mbit/s) generates 1666 spots per second<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Considering internet speed availability nowadays....... 1Mb/s is nothing in terms of bandwidth, but the effect on the cluster is huge.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>At this point I would suggest a different approach.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>We need to classify spots in different classes. Let's say gold and silver class.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>In the gold class we move all the spots that are verified. In the silver the rest.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>In case of a flooding attack we have to drop spots from the silver class first.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Usually queues are used to achieve this. Queues with different length and different "serving" speed.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Example: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Gold queue is 100 spots long and we serve 5 spots per second.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Silver queue is 50 spots long and we serve 2 spots per second.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>When queues are full, spots are discarded.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>I know that this is the theory....and implementation is not easy, but considering what happened last weekend, I cannot imagine another solution.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>73s<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Andrea iz2lsc<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>--><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>_______________________________________________<br>Dxspider-support mailing list<br>Dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk<br>https://mailman.tobit.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/dxspider-support<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div></div></body></html>