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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=ES link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style='tab-interval:35.4pt;word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoPlainText>Hi <span class=SpellE>all</span>,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I've received a series of messages that have left me speechless.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><b><i>I believe that disconnecting non CC Cluster nodes will help prevent further flooding of bogus spots, especially during major contests. These bogus spots do not originate on CC Clusters</i></b><i>.<o:p></o:p></i></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I suppose the statement could be true, but it's hard to know because CC Cluster is a black box.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><b><i>Many CC Cluster sysops probably are wondering what I am talking about since they don't see any flood of bogus spots.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><o:p></o:p></i></b></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Someone might say that this statement is far from the truth, but it won’t be me.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>There are those who claim that not only were there countless false spots on the CC Cluster nodes, but they were also being relayed across the entire network by the CCCs themselves. And, unable to handle that volume of traffic, they began experiencing delays of over 4 minutes.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I find it hard to believe—though I’ve seen the logs.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I manage several DXSpider nodes, and I can confirm that they never went down. In fact, one of them withstood peak loads with maximum delays of just 0.5 seconds.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I suppose it must have been the same for the others, right?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><b><i>Any CC Cluster that does not get spots from a non CC Cluster is probably ok.</i><o:p></o:p></b></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Due to the network protocol and the network flooding mechanism, this claim is quite difficult to defend, but what do I know?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><b><i>You do not need more than 3 or 4 connections to other nodes. The only reason you need this many is that occasionally you may lose a connection or two.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>This is what I can say. I totally agree. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><b><i>My own cluster runs on a very fast computer. It can see the bogus spots and drops them.</i><o:p></o:p></b></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>It seems that in this latest attack, that protection mechanism has been shown to be ineffective—or at least not in a high percentage of cases. The data is there, or so I’m told.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><b><i>If you have a slow computer you may drop the bad spots but get way behind in processing good ones. During a 6 hour period of the ARRL contest my computer rebooted and in the next 6 hours it dropped almost one million spots because the spot time was more than 4 minutes slow.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>This time delay was not here, it was in the nodes I was connected with. Since the contest ended and the bogus spots stopped, my computer has seen zero spots that were more than 4 minutes old. Not a single one.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>It's hard to believe that the evidence suggests the impact came from the traffic received through each of the links (too many, some say), but the software didn’t seem to be able to handle that volume, even though the host had high-performance hardware. I don't know—it’s tough if true.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><b><i>The CC Cluster software does not clutter up the backbone data by including a list of all connected users and their IP addresses. There is enough garbage already on the backbone.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>None of the CC Clusters send out this data.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>However, DX Spider node software wants to immediately see every user connect and disconnect.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>Their software keeps track of this data.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p><p class=MsoPlainText><b><o:p> </o:p></b></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Can it really be said that sending connection/disconnection information of users/nodes to the network could saturate the network? Some seem to think so. I think it must be a joke: no one could seriously say that, because it is very easy to calculate such traffic, and it is negligible, they say.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Of course, if this were true, one would suspect that not all node software is capable of handling this information without being affected. As far as I know, this is not a problem in DXSpider. It would be interesting to see what the difference is, just out of curiosity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I wonder why Dirk would want to include IP addresses in the control packets between nodes. <span class=SpellE>Could</span> <span class=SpellE>it</span> be <span class=SpellE>the</span> <span class=SpellE>same</span> as <span class=SpellE>with</span> <span class=SpellE>the</span> <span class=SpellE>badip</span> <span class=SpellE>lists</span> <span class=SpellE>that</span> <span class=SpellE>have</span> <span class=SpellE>helped</span> stop a <span class=SpellE>lot</span> <span class=SpellE>of</span> spam?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><b><i>And why is this important to know?<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>If you go to the DX Spider Support page you will see lots of posts about the VE7CC-1 node and that many of the sysops are proudly stating that all spots from VE7CC-1 node are dropped and not passed on.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>This is being done because my node and all other CC Cluster nodes do not notify DX Spider nodes of users<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>connected and their IP addresses.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I have not read that any sysop boasts of having removed a CC cluster. What is publicly known is that some sysops have decided their own security policy for their node and extend it to their partners, no more and no less.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Seems quite reasonable, doesn't it?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><b><i>Although not stated it appears to me that ALL spots originating on ALL CC Clusters are therefore being dropped by some of the DX Spider nodes.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span class=SpellE>They</span> <span class=SpellE>tell</span> me <span class=SpellE>that</span> <span class=SpellE>this</span> <span class=SpellE>is</span> <span class=SpellE>not</span> true, <span class=SpellE>that</span> Lee <span class=SpellE>should</span> <span class=SpellE>have</span> <span class=SpellE>known</span> <span class=SpellE>before</span> <span class=SpellE>making</span> <span class=SpellE>these</span> <span class=SpellE>claims</span> <span class=SpellE>that</span> <span class=SpellE>this</span> <span class=SpellE>could</span> lead <span class=SpellE>to</span> a <span class=SpellE>conflict</span>. I <span class=SpellE>told</span> <span class=SpellE>them</span> <span class=SpellE>that</span> <span class=SpellE>this</span> <span class=SpellE>should</span> <span class=SpellE>not</span> be true, <span class=SpellE>that</span> <span class=SpellE>it</span> <span class=SpellE>would</span> be <span class=SpellE>too</span> <span class=SpellE>far-fetched</span>.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span class=SpellE>However</span>, <span class=SpellE>they</span> <span class=SpellE>also</span> <span class=SpellE>told</span> me <span class=SpellE>that</span> VE7CC-1 has <span class=SpellE>features</span> <span class=SpellE>enabled</span> <span class=SpellE>that</span> <span class=SpellE>almost</span> no <span class=SpellE>other</span> CC <span class=SpellE>Cluster</span> <span class=SpellE>had</span> <span class=SpellE>enabled</span>: PC92C, <span class=SpellE>which</span> shows <span class=SpellE>the</span> <span class=SpellE>connected</span> <span class=SpellE>users</span>; PC92A and D; and <span class=SpellE>even</span> PC92K, so <span class=SpellE>that</span> <span class=SpellE>everyone</span> can <span class=SpellE>see</span> <span class=SpellE>the</span> <span class=SpellE>number</span> <span class=SpellE>of</span> <span class=SpellE>users</span> and <span class=SpellE>nodes</span> <span class=SpellE>connected</span>. <span class=SpellE>But</span> <span class=SpellE>for</span> <span class=SpellE>sysops</span> <span class=SpellE>not</span> <span class=SpellE>to</span> <span class=SpellE>have</span> <span class=SpellE>these</span> <span class=SpellE>same</span> <span class=SpellE>features</span> <span class=SpellE>on</span> <span class=SpellE>their</span> <span class=SpellE>node</span> <span class=SpellE>is</span> <span class=SpellE>not</span> <span class=SpellE>possible</span>, <span class=SpellE>because</span> <span class=SpellE>it</span> <span class=SpellE>would</span> <span class=SpellE>have</span> <span class=SpellE>minimized</span> <span class=SpellE>the</span> <span class=SpellE>rejection</span> <span class=SpellE>of</span> spots <span class=SpellE>from</span> <span class=SpellE>those</span> <span class=SpellE>nodes</span> in <span class=SpellE>the</span> CC <span class=SpellE>Cluster</span>.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>As I <span class=SpellE>said</span>, <span class=SpellE>it</span> <span class=SpellE>is</span> <span class=SpellE>impossible</span> <span class=SpellE>for</span> <span class=SpellE>this</span> <span class=SpellE>to</span> be true.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><b><i>Looking at the nodes of origin of DX spots during major contests you will see that the majority of spots originate on CC Clusters.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>If these spots are all being dropped then users of some of the DX Spider and AR Cluster nodes will not see the majority of the DX spots.<o:p></o:p></i></b></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Since none of this seemed to make sense, I thought I might try to turn to the data, data that is available on any node in the network.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>If we count the total number of spots from 1 January 2025 until now, we get the following values:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Total spots generated on the network:<span style='mso-tab-count:2'> </span>862,245<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Total spots generated in the DXSpider nodes:<span style='mso-tab-count:1'> </span>489,837<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Remaining spots not generated by DXSpider:<span style='mso-tab-count:1'> </span>372,408<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>If we assume that everything not generated by a DXSpider node was generated by the CC Clusters, these would account for only 43% of the total. However, the actual amount is probably lower due to the presence of other types such as AR Cluster, CLX, DXNet and AK1A.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Thus, more than half of the spots generated in the network seem to come from a DXSpider node.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>But as we have suffered several attacks, I considered these figures invalid and analysed the whole year 2024:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Total spots generated in the network:<span style='mso-tab-count:2'> </span>3,772,177<span style='mso-tab-count:1'> </span>100.00%<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Total spots generated in the DXSpider nodes:<span style='mso-tab-count:1'> </span>2,155,322<span style='mso-tab-count:1'> </span> 57.14%<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Remaining spots not generated by DXSpider:<span style='mso-tab-count:1'> </span>1,616,855<span style='mso-tab-count:1'> </span> 42.86%<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>The total <span class=SpellE>number</span> <span class=SpellE>of</span> <span class=SpellE>nodes</span> in <span class=SpellE>the</span> <span class=SpellE>network</span> (<span class=SpellE>identified</span>) <span class=SpellE>that</span> <span class=SpellE>sent</span> >= 1 spot, <span class=SpellE>was</span> <span class=SpellE>approx</span>. 439 <span class=SpellE>out</span> <span class=SpellE>of</span> 540. <span class=SpellE>See</span> file 002.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>The <span class=SpellE>number</span> <span class=SpellE>of</span> DXSpider <span class=SpellE>nodes</span> <span class=SpellE>that</span> <span class=SpellE>sent</span> at <span class=SpellE>least</span> 1 spot, <span class=SpellE>was</span> <span class=SpellE>approx</span>. 292 <span class=SpellE>out</span> <span class=SpellE>of</span> 393. <span class=SpellE>See</span> file 001.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText>It seems that I have not made a mistake with the 2025 values.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Although the provided values are for long periods and not exclusively for competitions, anyone could do the calculations, but is it really necessary?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>And in case you want to go to the source:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><a href="https://groups.io/g/CC-Cluster/message/2152">https://groups.io/g/CC-Cluster/message/2152</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><a href="https://groups.io/g/CC-Cluster/topic/111514058#msg2149">https://groups.io/g/CC-Cluster/topic/111514058#msg2149</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Let's work together, it will make us stronger.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>73 de Kin EA3CV<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>PS<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Please excuse me if what I’ve written isn’t clear.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>By the way, if any sysop would prefer that we stop sharing links, please let me know by email before kicking me out without warning. I still have some civility left in me, I won’t get angry.<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>