<div dir="ltr"><div>For PC61 originated by dxspider the default hop count is 30.</div><div>I cannot comment for spots originated by others.</div><div>I can see on my node PC61 originated by VE7CC coming in with H95</div><div><br></div><div>Anyway, <span class="gmail-im">Kin EA3CV did an excellent paper analyzing the network and he found that each node can reach any other node in 2-5 hops on most of the cases.</span></div><div><span class="gmail-im">So I do not expect to see long path recorded as you depicted (as far as there are no loops, but this is a good way to discover loops indeed).</span></div><div><span class="gmail-im"><br></span></div><div><span class="gmail-im">73s</span></div><div><span class="gmail-im"><br></span></div><div><span class="gmail-im">Andrea</span></div><div><span class="gmail-im"><br></span></div><div><span class="gmail-im"><br></span></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">--></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 12, 2025 at 6:44 PM Rudy Bakalov <<a href="mailto:r_bakalov@yahoo.com" target="_blank">r_bakalov@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr">350 bytes per hop per message, not 350 bytes per message. It's give or take another 25 MB for 80,000 messages.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">If H is not what PC61 says it is, what is it? If it is decremented, what is the starting value to get to 98? And what is the purpose of H if unreliable, why send it at all?</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Rudy N2WQ</div><div><br></div>
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On Wednesday, March 12, 2025 at 01:34:47 PM EDT, Kin <<a href="mailto:ea3cv@cronux.net" target="_blank">ea3cv@cronux.net</a>> wrote:
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<div><div id="m_1573346562652736335m_-3675340174024689359ydpb0bfdd7yiv1464727488"><div><div><p><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">Average</span></span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> spot <span>value</span> (60/130) 95 bytes. <span>But</span> I <span>will</span> use <span>the</span> <span>worst</span> case, 150 bytes.</span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p><p><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">Received</span></span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> <span>frame</span> <span>size</span>:</span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif">14(Ethernet <span><span>header</span></span><span>)+</span>20(IP <span>header</span>)+20(TCP <span>header</span>)+150(<span>Payload</span>)+4(CRC) = 208 bytes.</span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif">80000 <span>messages</span>/min. <span>approx</span>. 1334 <span>messages</span>/s</span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif">1334 <span>messages</span>/s * 208 bytes * 8 bits = 2219776 bytes/s</span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p><p><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">Necessary</span></span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> line <span>speed</span> = 2.22 Mbps</span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p><p><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">With</span></span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> <span>the</span> <span>assumed</span> <span>increase</span> <span>of</span> 350 bytes per <span>message</span>:</span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif">14(Ethernet <span><span>header</span></span><span>)+</span>20(IP <span>header</span>)+20(TCP <span>header</span>)+500(<span>Payload</span>)+4(CRC) = 558 bytes.</span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif">80000 <span>messages</span>/min <span>approx</span>. 1334 <span>messages</span>/s</span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif">1334 <span>messages</span>/s * 558 bytes * 8 bits = 5954976 bytes/s</span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p><p><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">Necessary</span></span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> line <span>speed</span> = 5.96 Mbps</span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p><p><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">But</span></span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> <span>if</span> <span>instead</span> <span>of</span> <span>having</span> 35 <span>neighbouring</span> <span>nodes</span>, <span>we</span> <span>had</span> 10:</span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif">(5954976 bytes/s * 10) / <span>35 <span> </span>=</span> 1.70 Mbps <span> </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p><p><span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">Conclusion</span></span><span style="font-family:sans-serif">, <span>pecata</span> minuta <span>for</span> <span>the</span> <span>connection</span> <span>to</span> <span>the</span> <span>provider</span> and a <span>waste</span> <span>of</span> CPU/<span>Memory</span> <span>with</span> so <span>many</span> links.</span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif">Ah, <span>we</span> <span>take</span> <span>the</span> <span>value</span> <span>of</span> <span>about</span> 5 <span>hops</span> as <span>valid</span> <span>when</span> <span>we</span> are <span>interested</span>, <span>now</span> <span>we</span> <span>should</span> <span>not</span> use 50.</span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif">Kin EA3CV</span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif">PS</span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif">20 CCC + 15 DXS</span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p><div><div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><div id="m_1573346562652736335m_-3675340174024689359ydpb0bfdd7yiv1464727488yqtfd97079"><p><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:sans-serif">De:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:sans-serif"> Dxspider-support <<a href="mailto:dxspider-support-bounces@tobit.co.uk" target="_blank">dxspider-support-bounces@tobit.co.uk</a>> <b>En nombre de </b>Rudy Bakalov via Dxspider-support<br clear="none"><b>Enviado el:</b> miércoles, 12 de marzo de 2025 16:57<br clear="none"><b>Para:</b> <a href="mailto:iz2lsc.andrea@gmail.com" target="_blank">iz2lsc.andrea@gmail.com</a>; The DXSpider Support list <<a href="mailto:dxspider-support@dxcluster.org" target="_blank">dxspider-support@dxcluster.org</a>><br clear="none"><b>CC:</b> Rudy Bakalov <<a href="mailto:r_bakalov@yahoo.com" target="_blank">r_bakalov@yahoo.com</a>><br clear="none"><b>Asunto:</b> Re: [Dxspider-support] Forgeries</span></p></div></div></div><div id="m_1573346562652736335m_-3675340174024689359ydpb0bfdd7yiv1464727488yqtfd99681"><p> </p><div><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span><span>Let’s think this thru:</span></p><div><p><span> </span></p></div><div><p><span>1/Logs show spots with H as high as 98! Recording the node of each hop will increase PC61 payload on average 6 characters per hop. Let’s say average H is 50, that would be 300 characters plus the delimiters or about 350 characters.</span></p></div><div><p><span>2/My cluster received over 80K spots per minute. Imagine the traffic created by 80K messages with additional 350 characters per PC61 message.</span></p></div><div><p><span> </span></p></div><div><p><span>Can you describe the full algorithm you are proposing? How are you going to use the additional data to make a decision to accept or drop a spot?</span></p></div><div><p><span> </span></p></div><div><p><span>When comparing PC61 to BGP remember that BGP is designed to support two-way data flows. PC61 is strictly one-way and doesn’t need routing overhead.</span></p></div><div><p><span> </span></p></div><div><p><span>Rudy N2WQ</span></p></div><div><p><span> </span></p><div><div><p><span>Sent using a tiny keyboard. Please excuse brevity, typos, or inappropriate autocorrect.</span></p></div><div><p><span> </span></p></div></div><div><p><span><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></span></p><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span>On Mar 12, 2025, at 11:19</span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span><span>AM, IZ2LSC via Dxspider-support <<a href="mailto:dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk" target="_blank">dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk</a>> wrote:</span></p></blockquote></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><p><span style="font-family:sans-serif"></span><span></span></p><div><div><p><span>Mike, this is why I'm saying that we need to record the whole path, not only the last hop.</span></p></div><div><p><span>Every node has to append it's ID.</span></p></div><div><p><span>Andrea</span></p></div><div><p><span> </span></p></div><div><div><p><span>--></span></p></div></div><p><span> </span></p></div><p><span> </span></p><div><div><p><span>On Wed, Mar 12, 2025 at 2:05</span><span style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span><span>PM Mike McCarthy, W1NR via Dxspider-support <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk</a>> wrote:</span></p></div><blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><p><span>The current release does tag spots from the incoming node partner with a <br clear="none">"via" tag. You would need to analyze all the logs in between, using the <br clear="none">"via" tag to trace it back to the source.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">On 3/12/2025 8:06 AM, IZ2LSC via Dxspider-support wrote:<br clear="none">> We are all senior developer with AI!<br clear="none">> At least you agreed that what you proposed for partner identity is not a <br clear="none">> solution against the flooding.<br clear="none">> Perhaps do you also agree about the need to record the spot path?<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> 73<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Andrea<br clear="none"><br clear="none">-- <br clear="none">73 de Mike, W1NR<br clear="none"><br clear="none">THAT was the equation. EXISTENCE!... SURVIVAL... must cancel out... <br clear="none">programming!<br clear="none"><br clear="none">- Ruk -<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Dxspider-support mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="https://mailman.tobit.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/dxspider-support" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://mailman.tobit.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/dxspider-support</a></span></p></blockquote></div><p><span>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Dxspider-support mailing list<br clear="none"><a href="mailto:Dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk" target="_blank">Dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk</a><br clear="none"><a href="https://mailman.tobit.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/dxspider-support" target="_blank">https://mailman.tobit.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/dxspider-support</a></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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