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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Apropos ftx <br>
<br>
(on the test branch) is your friend (i.e. I've even done the help
for these commands).<br>
<br>
But in answer to the question you asked: yes (in as much as it
can, given that I only look at the comments). The answer to the
other question "is this users or node"? users. <br>
<br>
Dirk<br>
<br>
On 19/03/2025 07:55, Keith, G6NHU via Dxspider-support wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:dbc65447-813e-4caf-954b-d7aa265beb79@Spark">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<title></title>
<div name="messageBodySection">
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size: 16px">Dirk,
will enable/ftx and disable/ftx completely enable and
disable all FTx spots?</span><span style="font-size: 16px"><br>
</span><span style="font-size: 16px"><br>
</span><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size: 16px">73
Keith</span></div>
</div>
<div name="messageReplySection">On 18 Mar 2025 at 21:50 +0000,
Dirk Koopman via Dxspider-support
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk"><dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk></a>, wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
style="border-left-color: grey; border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; margin: 5px 5px;padding-left: 10px;">
<div dir="ltr">There is a new version available in the test
branch. Please read the Changes file. Hopefully that will
make what’s happening clear.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">73 Dirk</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On 18 Mar 2025, at 20:47, Ciemon
Dunville via Dxspider-support
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk"><dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Andrea, and everyone else,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We should be empowering the users, not quietly
restricting them. If you're throttling (or planning on
throttling) users you must tell them, and tell them
why. They should be aware that there is a chance
they'll be getting a reduced service from your
cluster, and if they understand the limitations and
why they will be in a position to understand and act.</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font size="2"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="2"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">---<br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="2"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Ciemon
Dunville <a
href="https://www.qrz.com/db/G0TRT"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">-
GØTRT</a></font></div>
<div><font size="2"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Warminster,
Wiltshire. UK</font></div>
<div><font size="2"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 at
14:14, IZ2LSC via Dxspider-support <<a
href="mailto:dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear Dirk, </div>
<div>I was quite sure about that!!!</div>
<div>Thanks!!!!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>@Ciemon, yes I agree that the documentation is
not the best, but the beauty of DXspider is that
we have the source code available. This is why I
prefer Dirk work to others.<br>
</div>
<div>So you are free to study, test, reverse
engineer, improve, fork.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding the filter, flooding limit, etc.,
well, I think that each sysop has a certain level
of freedom on how to serve his users.</div>
<div>Just think of the setting to filter badwords,
baddx, badspotter and so on.</div>
<div>Any sysop can implement different lists.</div>
<div>I think that when you enter a shop you are not
questioning why they sell X and not Y.</div>
<div>If you don't like what they sell, go to the
next door.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>73s</div>
<div>Andrea iz2lsc</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">--></div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 18,
2025 at 2:26 PM Dirk Koopman via Dxspider-support
<<a href="mailto:dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>There will be a version of this in the next
release.<br>
<br>
Dirk<br>
<br>
On 18/03/2025 12:51, IZ2LSC via
Dxspider-support wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I Ciemon, </div>
<div>it was just a different approach, not
yet implemented because I'm sure Dirk
could do something better.</div>
<div>I'm just doing some experiments on a
lab node.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>73s</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Andrea</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">--></div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue,
Mar 18, 2025 at 11:48 AM Ciemon Dunville
via Dxspider-support <<a
href="mailto:dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Andrea,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm curious as to whether or not
your rate limiting applies to your
(you only) 'OTA cluster? Or are you
not forwarding spots into those
systems?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Having just had a look, I can't see
any mention of you rate limiting spots
on your cluster, it would be useful to
understand your thinking/levels etc<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>73, Ciemon</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font size="2"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="2"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">---<br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="2"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Ciemon Dunville <a
href="https://www.qrz.com/db/G0TRT" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">-
GØTRT</a></font></div>
<div><font size="2"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Warminster, Wiltshire. UK</font></div>
<div><font size="2"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Sysop <a class="gmail_plusreply"
id="m_-3943033595541405559m_-6763769641186160254m_8772513149316000074plusReplyChip-0"
moz-do-not-send="true">@G0TRT-9</a></font><font
size="2"
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Tue, 18 Mar 2025 at 08:46, IZ2LSC via
Dxspider-support <<a
href="mailto:dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Because I don't tolerate serial
spotters (human or robot, SSB or
DATA or CW), my approach is
different and radical.</div>
<div>If a spotter exceeds a
threshold of spots/m it is
blacklisted for a certain time.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>73s</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Andrea, iz2lsc</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_signature">--></div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Tue, Mar 18, 2025 at 3:28 AM
Christopher Schlegel via
Dxspider-support <<a
href="mailto:dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dxspider-support@tobit.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="auto">Agreed on the
update point...
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">And I see your
point on the likeness of the
auto generation, but I'm
going to play devil's
advocate here. In the last
week the K index has been
horrible for barefoot and a
wire operators leading to an
increase in digital mode
activity. I am one of these
operators. Now, I don't care
for auto generated spots and
have it disabled as I feel
that I can filter the spots
better than just
automagically letting it
happen (my opinion). I am
capable and educated
(through effort) enough to
do that. I understand the
argument for general users
and their capabilities,
ignorance is not an excuse
at some point. Perhaps an
education campaign by sysops
could help the situation,
but that's a losing battle
as well. Proven by Kin's
efforts. Gives me the idea
to put a link to the wiki in
the MOTD.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Most software
that I have been exposed to
will automatically spot (if
set) when a contact has been
logged. No different than an
overzealous spotter at say a
few spots a minute. The
gotcha here is that the
information is valid (as
much as any manually entered
spot) and authentic to the
contact. Even during
contests, if all QSOs were
automatically spotted of
even the best CW 2BSIQ
operators you're looking at
maybe 9 spots per minute by
various call signs. 500
QSOs/hr / 60min = 8.33
spots/min (exaggerated for
headroom)</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I think there
is merit in the idea of rate
limiting, at least in
mitigating the effect of
flooding. Websites and other
software (thinking
PSKReporter, rate limiting
login attempts, etc.) do
this all the time. The
deduping algorithms employed
in the cluster (haven't
forgotten the bypass) do to
some extent but not in the
manner needed.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Authenticity
of spots is a separate issue
to me. As you mentioned
previously, the cluster is
far too disparate and open
to truly fix that issue
while being inclusive to
older technologies and
formats. Again, we mirror
the greater Internet at this
point and trying to get
everyone on board is like
pulling teeth. Do we use the
greater share that Spider
nodes have to force a
movement? Is it worth an
essentially civil war at
this point alienating older
nodes? I don't think this is
in the spirit of Amateur
Radio nor is keeping
everything a secret by way
of going closed source. I
applaud Dirk's efforts here
in adhering to the spirit.
If someone used my radio
gear to broadcast a
commercial transmission,
would I not have the
responsibility to prevent
that and suffer the
consequences that follow? </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Sysops need to
wake up and pay attention.
These attacks are coming
from somewhere, there has to
be a way to find the holes
and do what we can to patch
them. My personal opinion is
that I provide a service and
compromising that to solve a
problem is the easy way out.
I would respectfully request
that these changes remain
optional so that I can
provide the service to users
the way I believe it should
be. Some other sysops have
already filtered out FTx
spots on their nodes and
advertise them that way. I
do not filter announcements
so any user that would
prefer that, is able to see
them and make that choice
for themselves.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div>It has been danced around
on this list and I'm just
going to go and outright say
it...sysops that are absent
or apathetic perhaps need to
be disconnected as a warning
or make their nodes
inaccessible to the public.
A culling of sorts to prune
the dead weight and reduce
the vulnerable attack
surface. This I feel is the
real vulnerability of the
system that gets exploited.
Checking in once in a while
or paying attention to
communication from a group
that a sysop directly
affects is the first and
foremost thing we can do to
cooperate on keeping things
healthy. I for one will keep
paying attention in hopes of
finding that slip that lets
us figure out the hole and I
will continue to work with
other sysops here in that
effort.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As always, I am not a
developer, but I will
respect the decisions of the
group and the developer who
has so graciously spent his
time providing the software
needed to provide this
service to the hobby.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>73, Chris WI3W</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sorry for the rant like
prose, but a call to arms is
needed...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote"
dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On Mon,
Mar 17, 2025, 18:58 Dirk
Koopman <<a
href="mailto:djk@tobit.co.uk" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">djk@tobit.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Which
is the place that I am
coming from. Maybe, in
this case, on somewhat
specious grounds but is
precisely in the light of
the recent uptick in<br>
attacks on the network
that caused me to do this.<br>
<br>
Please bear in mind that
the network was recently
used to promote and
facilitate someone’s
commercial activity by
sending genuine (looking)
spots by irregular means.
But ignoring the whys and
wherefores of the
circumstances: consider
the nature of the
generation. The majority
of those spots were
automatically generated by
design. Just like these
spots AND they too were
then modified by some
people to get around the
filters - just like the
spots causing the recent
flooding.<br>
<br>
They were designed to
affirm rather than inform
the user. The system
generated them rather than
the user. As sysops and I
struggled to contain the
flood, and the resulting
vendetta that ensued,
caused even more problems
and has led me to conclude
that any automated spots
are to be discouraged or
removed.<br>
<br>
Some years ago I had a
similar spat with an
author about automated FTx
spots. Which went nowhere.
The volume may not be the
same but these spots annoy
many, many users when they
appear in large runs as
they did (for a time) this
afternoon. Hence this
little experiment.<br>
<br>
Users are not literate
enough to (force their
user programs to) create
filters for themselves*.
Either I have to provide a
mechanism or sysops have
to each create a local
command / filter to do it
for them.<br>
<br>
Anyway I shall be merging
the test branch tomorrow
(with this feature
switched off) and I’ll do
something about a user
version as well (maybe
disable/ftx) with a sysops
function to allow or
disable Ftx spots for
users as well. Maybe that
will mean that the nodes
running very old software
offering this as a selling
point might upgrade. Sigh.<br>
<br>
73 Dirk G1TLH<br>
<br>
* In the last couple of
days I have had a request
from a user to fix his
filters for Hamclock.<br>
<br>
> On 17 Mar 2025, at
19:19, Christopher
Schlegel <<a
href="mailto:sutehk.cs@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sutehk.cs@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Flooding, providing
false info, or other
abuses to the cluster is
our domain as it directly
relates to the above sysop
responsibilities.<br>
</blockquote>
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