[Dxspider-support] Dx-World and DxCluster

Mon Feb 13 05:45:34 GMT 2023

Mikel,

Well ... I read what you say, and while you describe some kind of ideal world, in ham radio it is not going to happen until there is $$$$$ for the implementation and maintenance of such facilities.

However, you seem to have a reasonable understanding of the possibilities to move forwards, so let me know when you have your new security system in place and I will be happy to implement it at my cluster.

73 de WR3D

-----Original Message-----
From: Dxspider-support <dxspider-support-bounces at tobit.co.uk> On Behalf Of Mikel EA2CW via Dxspider-support
Sent: 12 February 2023 21:20
To: Luigi Carlotto IK5ZUK via Dxspider-support <dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk>
Cc: Mikel EA2CW <ea2cw at gautxori.com>
Subject: Re: [Dxspider-support] Dx-World and DxCluster

First of all, I beg your pardon for my bad english. It is not my mother language and I cannot express myself as well as I wanted to . That said, I am a bit surprised by some of the posts I've reading on both mail/group lists (cc-cluster & dx-spider).

I thought than Ham Radio was about tech innovation, experimenting, self-teaching, etc. Instead of these, I saw some colleagues who wish to keep all those old things without changes.

I expected, of course, some level of reactivity from those who have to make the bigger efforts (mainly two unfortunate soft developers, Lee and
Dirk) and will confront the bigger part of the work (at least on the near future), but never from the people who -in a non-profit way- are mantaining the cluster system running.

We have a system that has been serving the ham community with information (more or less confidable) for a long time. Not only now, but going worse, we have to fight a 0.00001 percent of that users (probably the same who make DQRM during risk and cost dxpeditions) putting bad data into the info system. We have to better the system or it wil become -perhaps slowly but for sure- useless.

Of course, any change made on the cluster net will have consequences on the other systems connected to them. No doubt that some "reactive" 
measures has been adopted (badips, badnodes, badusers,etc.). Note I said "reactive".

Think for example in the bank system. As 99.9999% of the users are good people, let them use the ATMs without password. Or connect 3rd part systems (bizum, paypal, etc) with no security. It will be ok the 99.99999% of the time. If someone steal money, we will punish him, don't worry! Where is the need of "proactive" security measures, like passwords, cards, biometrics?

We are not proposing here a breaking change. We can mantain a low-level security network, where the users and client software will be able to be feeded by the cluster net, from any node, trusty or unsafe. Of course the quality of the info provided by the non-secured nodes will not be the same, as you must front the input of fake information, (allow me not to explain more about the security breaches that could exist in a near future, but we can see some symptoms on every major dxpedition or contest).

On the other hand, we can develope a 2nd level network that can be ONLY consulted by the 1st level nodes/users , but they will not be allowed to put information in. No security protocols, no passwords, no id requirements. This net should meet at least with these requirements, that can be more or less pregressively developed and in the best way to affect as less as possible to the existing net itself, the different node softwares, and then the "client" ones (loggers, contest tools,
SDRs,...):

- Node safe identification. Every node should known each other, and secure the info running between them.
- Client (dx hunter, contester, etc) identified to be able to upload information to the net. This should be filled by a per node policy or better, a shared system of SSO (single sign on) which allow any client to be identified by one node only and be able to id himself on any node. 
Each system has its pro/contras.
- Interconnection with 3rd part nets (see RBN) as secure as possible. 
They will have to front its own security risks too.

- Tools enough to reject bad nodes, bad "clients" and bad data (fake spots mainly and then "badwords")

The result of these implementations will define the final quality of the information feeded to the system, and also, the quality of the information given to all those 3rd part systems as well. We all know about some systems running today where no serious dxer or contester will connect to. He will be given only trash. All the involved software developers will have to choose which source they want to be connected to.

Finally, don't forget than in a wide field of our "market" another big source of information already exists. I'm talking about RBN. Out of SSB, almost all other modes are fulfilled by it. Of course it has also its own problems of data reliability (we will not talk about the quality specs that sometimes are asked for to it, and then we -cluster nodes- don't accomplish with)

I know we know ham ops are getting more and more aged, and as good 3rd agers are proclive to reject changes, think on the old good times, but don't forget that we are here to learn, to experiment and to go forward, that has been our history from the very radio begginings. We don't do this for the money (I hope in 99.99999% of the cases), but for the joy. 
Don't let that 0.000001% of us to break the 99.0000% efforts because we don't want to change our mind a bit.

Please excuse me for the language, typos and other mistakes

As always, 73 & good radio
Mikel EA2CW

(sent to cc-cluster discussion list too)

El 10/02/2023 a las 14:51, Luigi Carlotto IK5ZUK via Dxspider-support
escribió:
> Hello all,
> please read carefully this article apperared today on Dx-World web site:
>
> https://www.dx-world.net/unacceptable-behaviour-on-dx-clusters/
>
> 73 Luigi IK5ZUK
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dxspider-support mailing list
> Dxspider-support at tobit.co.uk
> https://mailman.tobit.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/dxspider-support

--
ea2cw at gautxori.com
Bilbao, Bizkaia. IN83MG
http://radio.gautxori.com
http://qrz.com/db/ea2cw
https://t.me/EA2CW